Joe arrives at Hillview Manor to meet Carl. Janet reveals that she’s made a bet that Carl will die before Christmas. It’s now September, giving him three months to life. Carl asks why Joe doesn’t write about his family, and Joe reveals that Kathy is in mandatory detox after her DUI arrest, that he never met his dad, that Kathy’s mom died when Kathy was young, and that Kathy’s dad (Grandpa Bill) died when Joe was 11. When Carl asks how Bill died, Joe gets angry and turns the conversation back to Carl.

Carl suggests that Joe wants to talk to him because of Crystal. Joe acknowledges that this is a unique story. Carl responds that it’s likely more common than Joe would expect: “There’s probably ten or fifteen people in this very building who have killed” (43). When Joe asks Carl if he’s saying there are other murderers in the building, the following exchange ensues:

‘Are you talking about killing or murdering?’

‘Is there a difference?’

‘Yes. There is a difference. I’ve done both. I’ve killed…and I’ve murdered.’

‘What’s the difference?’

‘It’s the difference between hoping that the sun rises and hoping it doesn't.’ (43)

Carl agrees to give Joe his “dying declaration” (47) on the condition that Joe is honest with him.